When I started researching what it is seers see, for a long time, I seriously considered Quantum Physics as an explanation. Quantum Physics is the physics of the very small – smaller than atoms. This field of science examines how these very small particles/wave of matter and energy operate. Quantum mechanics refers to the math that describes how these wave particles operate, interact with each other and basically work. The math of quantum mechanics has the most accuracy and precision of any field of science.
Since quantum physics is commonly thought to be the building blocks of all reality, including other dimensions, and since spirits seem to move in and out of our reality somehow, then it seemed logical to me that quantum physics can help us understand spiritual phenomena.
I was wrong.
I Spoke of What I Knew Not!
Some articles and posts on this site contain vestiges of this thinking. I even recommended books by non-specialists who took quantum theory and applied it to spiritual phenomena in the Bible or to spiritual phenomena some people today witness or experience.
It seems logical to connect quantum physics to spiritual things, but it is not logical. It only seems logical to those who do not really understand quantum physics but use it to further some point, or really do understand quantum physics but use the lack of understanding most people have to further some point.
I fell in the former category: I didn’t understand it and so misapplied quantum physics to spiritual things.
Turning Point
After I began Seers See Ministries and spreading the word that many people really do see spiritual things (but did not have a comprehensive model about what or why seers see) a new pastor at my church began teaching. His name is Putty Putman, and he has a Ph.D. from the University of Illinois in Quantum Physics. He studied quantum fields. He was a good physicist, and the Lord called him into full-time ministry.
He became a pastor at the Vineyard Church of Central Illinois and eventually started the School of Kingdom Ministry, which I later graduated from. When Putty began teaching, I was so excited! I thought finally, he’d teach from the pulpit of a major church how quantum physics explains spiritual phenomena.
I thought he’d explain how quantum theory explains how the blind see, how the sick get healed, how demons are cast out and many other signs and wonders (all of which happen at the Vineyard regularly).
Putty never did, and because he never did, he seemed to indicate these weren’t phenomena that could be explained by science, but instead, were supernatural. (Imagine that!)
I started to wonder if my idea that quantum theory explained spiritual phenomena might be wrong. One day, Putty brought up these ideas from the stage, and I thought, here at last!
Then came the kicker.
He said basically, these ideas aren’t connected, and “if you think these are connected, congratulations, you might be a Gnostic.”
Woah. He went on to explain. Basically, if you think miracles, signs and wonders can be explained by quantum physics or if you think the appearance of demons and angels can be explained by quantum mechanics, then guess what: these things aren’t supernatural.
But they are supernatural. Signs and wonders accompany the advancing of the Kingdom. The regular rules on earth don’t apply when the rule of heaven invades. Much of what I believe about the spirit realm and have taught on this website and through my podcast was either taught or affirmed by the Vineyard’s teaching and the School of Kingdom Ministry.
Weirdly Not Connected. Well, Not So Weirdly After All
Regular rules of physics don’t apply in the quantum world. Things behave weirdly on those tiny scales – although explainable by math. Some people decide to link the weirdness of the math with the weirdness of the spirit realm: but the weirdness isn’t really connected. It’s like comparing how an apple tastes to how a battleship tastes, and then saying both are nutritious food. It’s a complete non-sensical non-comparison.
In this Peeranormal Podcast episode (the first of 3 on the topic), we are joined by Putty. We talk quantum mechanics and then look at why it should not be brought up when discussing the spirit realm. You can hear first hand from a pastor who is also a specialist in the field of quantum physics and (after all 3 episodes are released) learn first hand why quantum physics should not be used to discuss spiritual things or how and why seers see.
This episode is really good. Although I was a part of it, I’ve listened to it two more times to help grasp the concepts. From the episode notes:
This episode launches a series on quantum mechanics and its presumed relationship to metaphysical ideas, religion, theology, and the paranormal. During the series we’ll be joined by Dr. Rob (“Putty”) Putman, who holds a PhD in theoretical quantum physics, but now pastors a church in Illinois. In this first episode, we survey the history of quantum mechanics and talk about how some of the important ideas are used to make metaphysical statements about all of reality—statements that are inherently theological and religious. Are such statements accurate? What can we really say about the nature of reality and God on the basis of quantum physics?
Our Identity is Righteousness
Here is an unrelated message from Putty that is powerful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYI4sgbFJxc
I agree with Stenger — to think the universe has a consciousness aware of what we are doing or effected by how we observe (or something like that) is ridiculous. I once had a better explanation for that illusion but I forgot it.
God is the power/intelligence/love dwelling in the ultimate eternal non things, ultimate darkness, stillness and silence (ie non wave) being 3 aspects of non thing I am aware of,
All matter is made of the same thing — vibrating or swirling time.
The river of pre time force meets resistance and clots into whirlpools of matter. As the river passes the whirlpool made of the same thing the river is made of it keeps the whirlpool spinning. The river becomes time in relation to the matter it created and sustains as it passes the matter, in relation to the matter.
A six pointed star is a good 2d description of 3 dimensions — 3 directions of force.
A whirlpool is round and a natural shape motion takes when it meets resistance.
If you take a cross section of circles all the same size and stack them on a 2d level in the most space efficient way possible you’ll see 6 points of empty space around each circle that is surrounded by circles (I noticed it driving behind a truck stacked with PVC pipes). A hexagram is the most sides of equal shapes equal sided in flatland that is completely space efficient. Look at a bee hive.
All matter is projected from beyond time and space through God’s interference pattern — pre time force is the laser and the resistance the holographic film and the image is matter — my parable of matter
Sound is defined by what is greater than it and eternal. You can make a sound and on a graph it is defined by a flat line that represents silence or relative silence. We can do something to make the sound but the silence remains and the sound dies out (gets laid flat in the river of time).
Christ was constantly in touch with the eternal non things and the power/intelligence/love dwelling in them.
Satan cast out of the ultimate non things can only reflect off the temporal motion of matter and has no rest.
Knowing the facts does not make me able to know whether I’m in touch with the ultimate or a relative deception cause there is a whole spiritual world out there but I see that love and stillness just beyond everything — not God just out there in space but reflected in the center of each atom defining the motion of the electrons spinning around it.
The same river of time that keeps electrons spinning keeps planets spinning.
Unlike a river time comes from every direction at once like the flaming sword guarding Eden. Look at water — like electricity it takes the path of least resistance to ground. It will puddle up on a flat surface because the wind of time is hitting it from all sides equally except the side blocked by the earth. If I block it from one side right up to the surface of the water breaking the surface tension is making the water find a path of least resistance, I’m blocking the resistance, and it flows off the counter into the sink.
To take the non thing a step farther — all motion is defined by a relative stillness. I am still in relation to the car driving by. I am moving in relation to the axis of earth. The axis is moving in relation to the sun whose stillness defines the motion of the solar system and the solar system is moving in the universe. Somewhere out there is an ultimate stillness that defines all motion.
But it is not just out there but reflected in the stillness of every nucleus of a spinning atom or planet. But my point is What if we defined all stillness by a relative motion? Einstein demonstrated that the faster a rocket goes the slower time gets. We would have to keep going faster and faster until we reached the speed where time stopped and we would be in the same stillness, outer perimeter of time, same place — kind of reminds me of the discovery of the gospel in reverse I discovered where Christ goes back into the garden of Eden and does the tree of knowledge of good and evil in reverse and eventually he is at the beginning where there is a new creation taking us to and fighting for us the battle in heaven that is at the end of the Bible in Revelation which ends in a new creation. You can read it at http://www.backwardwalk.com/the-backward-walk/ if you want.
Thanks Doug, this is interesting… I agree with you that spiritual beings, like angels, demons are of a different order than matter, consisting of particles defined by quantum physics.
Quantum mechanical objects may look a lot like the spiritual world, but they are very different.
This brings me to a question:
The Lord did not like me to do what follows, so I did not do it. But if I create by mind power an entity and give it some spirit, so that it lives, like a tulpa (Tibet), is it then a spiritual entity or quantum physical? For both options is something to say.
Many greetings,
Marten
Addition: As a seer it is almost impossible for me to see if something is a quantum physical object or a spiritual one.
Will this episode be available in iTunes? For some reason it doesn’t appear in mine.
Yes it’s on iTunes.http://www.peeranormal.com/feed/podcast – It’s also the Fringe Radio Network feed.
Cool. I have been subscribed to Seers See waiting for it to appear there. Now I found a whole new podcast and episodes I didn’t know existed! Thanks! I thought this was part of Seers See.
I shouldn’t have been clearer. Thanks for letting me know!